HRLR
Los Tocayos Carlos
Chapter 13
Page: 13 of 23
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All Chapter 13 Footnotes

Then, Carlos said, "another guy" approached him outside the rink. "His name was Carlos Hernandez."193

DeLuna said he didn't recognize Hernandez at first but then realized Hernandez "did knew me."194 Carlos had "met him with my brother" at a dancing spot in 1978 and 1979, before DeLuna had gone to Dallas and then to prison, and after that "we started meeting each other a little better."195

"Do you recall what this Carlos Hernandez looks like?" Lawrence asked.196

"I can give you a little bit what he looks like," Carlos DeLuna answered. Black hair "somewhere to here (indicating)," about five-eight, five-nine and a hundred fifty pounds.197 "I remember the blue jeans, that's all I remember," the defendant said.198

DeLuna testified that he and Hernandez decided to go look for a guy they both knew named Ronnie Gonzalez who lived nearby. They asked the Perales sisters for a ride,199 but the sisters instead dropped them off at a store a couple blocks from the rink. Carlos DeLuna got a soda and called his stepfather to come pick him up.200 Blas was too drunk to come get him and told him to take a taxi home.201

"Since I got to catch a taxi home," DeLuna said he told Hernandez, "I'll go stick around there with you for awhile."202 The two set off on foot to Ronnie Gonzalez's house but didn't find him.203

"Carlos," DeLuna said, referring to Carlos Hernandez, "told me if I wanted to go to Wolfy's" because "Ronnie would hang around there sometimes.204 As they approached the entrance to Wolfy's, Hernandez said he was going to buy something across the street at the Shamrock store.205 Hernandez said he'd come find DeLuna inside the club, and DeLuna went in by himself.

He "bought a beer and sat down for awhile listening to the music."206 When Carlos Hernandez never showed up, DeLuna said, he went over to the Shamrock to look for him.207

"I noticed Hernandez inside the Shamrock Service Station," DeLuna testified.208 Then he "noticed Hernandez going in somewhere in the counter and started wrestling with that woman."209

DeLuna "started walking away."210 Asked why he left, DeLuna said, "I know I got a record and if Carlos Hernandez came back to where I was, I knew these people would say I was involved with this guy."211

When he heard sirens converging from all directions,212 DeLuna testified, he began to run. "I just kept running because I was scared, you know"—through backyards, over fences, whatever it took.213 He lost his shirt when it caught on a fence he jumped over.214

Finally, DeLuna heard people yelling. "I didn't know what was going on and I got scared and I dove under the truck, a truck I think it was."215 Police arrested him there.216

* * * * *

Coming to his last two questions, Lawrence asked DeLuna, "Did you ever tell the police that you knew who did it?"217 DeLuna replied that he did. While riding over to the gas station in the squad car, "I . . . told Officer Schauer that I didn't do it, but I knew who did it."218

"And then at one time," he continued, seeming to lose his composure, "I also told you about it, my attorneys, about this guy and that you brought me some pictures to see if I noticed him, but—and he turned out to be the guy and the State right here wouldn't do nothing to help me or nothing to look for this guy."219

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 416–17:

Q. Did—what happened after you saw them?

A. I was talking to them, then I saw another guy approach me, his name was Carlos Hernandez and he came and talked to me, asking me if, you know, he knew me. I said, "No, I don't know you." But then we started talking and he did know me. It turned out that he did knew [sic] me.

Q. Do you know—did you know him?

A. I did.

Q. Where did you know him from?

A. I would say back when we were kids.

Q. How long had it been since you had seen him?

A. Like back in 1978, '79.

Q. What happened then?

A. Well, I asked if he had seen Ronnie Gonzalez, because we knew Ronnie together and he said no, but he knew where he lived so I asked him if—if he want [sic] to, we can ask these girls to take us over there.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 416–17.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 433 ("Q. What were the circumstances under which you originally met Carlos Hernandez? A. You mean back then, back when I knew him, first knew him? Q. Yes, sir. A. Well, we used to—oh, I met him with my brother at a dance and we started meeting each other a little better.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 416–17;

see supra Chapter 5, notes 152, 162, 181 and accompanying text; supra Chapter 6, note 26 and accompanying text.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 422–23 ("Q. Did—do you recall what this Carlos Hernandez looks like? A. I can give you a little bit what he looks like. He's got hair about—somewhere to about right here (indicating) and about—Q. What color hair? A. Black. Q. What else do you remember? A. About five-eight, five-nine, weighs about a hundred fifty pounds. Q. Do you recall what he was wearing? A. I remember the blue jeans, that's all I remember.").

See supra note 196.

See supra note 196.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 417, 418 ("Q. What happened then? A. Well, I asked if he had seen Ronnie Gonzalez, because we knew Ronnie together and he said no, but he knew where he lived so I asked him if—if he want to, we can ask these girls to take us over there. Q. Did you ask the girls? A. I did. Q. Did they take you anywhere? A. They did [to a store and left the two men off]."; "A. We proceeded [on foot] to Ronnie's house. Q. Do you know where that is? A. No, I don't. Q. Is it in that area or did y'all have to drive—A. It is—it is in that area.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 417–19 ("Q. Where did y'all go? A. We went to—first we stopped at the Kostoryz and McArdle at Circle K. I walked in there to get some Cokes and I asked her where the phone was. I wanted to make a phone call to my father. Q. Who did you call? A. My stepfather, sir, my mother. Q. Why did you call your stepfather? A. To ask him for a ride, sir, to come pick me up. . . . Q. Where were the girls at this time? A. They were there and then they said they had to leave, so they left. Q. They left y'all on foot there? A. Yes, sir, they did.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 418 ("Q. What happened then? A. Well, I asked Hernandez what he wanted to do and told me he was going to stick around for awhile, so I said, 'Well, since I got to catch a taxi home, I'll go stick around there with you for awhile and wait.'");

see Blas Avalos, Stepfather of Carlos DeLuna, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 406–07 ("Q. Okay, so you're saying that Carlos, then, called you sometime, you knew that it was sometime between 8:00 and 8:15. A. Yes, sir. . . . Q. Did you, in fact, go and pick up Carlos? A. No, I told him—I told my wife to tell him to take a taxi to come home because I was drunk.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 418 ("Q. What happened then? A. Well, I asked Hernandez what he wanted to do and told me he was going to stick around for awhile, so I said, 'Well, since I got to catch a taxi home, I'll go stick around there with you for awhile and wait.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 418 ("Q. What happened after you made the phone call? A. After I finished talking to him? Q. Yes. A. We proceeded to Ronnie's house. Q. Do you know where that is? A. No, I don't. Q. Is it in that area or did y'all have to drive—A. It is—it is in that area. Q. Did y'all find Ronnie Gonzalez' home? A. No, we didn't.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 419 ("Q. Then what did y'all decide to do, if anything? A. Well, Carlos told me if I wanted to go to Wolfy's, that sometimes he hung around there, Ronnie would hang around there sometimes. Q. Did you all go to Wolfy's? A. Yes, we did.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 419–20:

Q. Did you go into Wolfy's?

A. I did.

Q. And what about this friend of yours, Carlos Hernandez?

A. Well, he told me he had to go do something, to buy something.

Q. What do you mean he told he had to buy something?

A. Well, he went to buy something at that gas station, sir.

Q. What gas station?

A. That Shamrock gas station.

Q. Is it—the—the—the Shamrock Service Station, the one we have been talking about here?

A. Yes.

Q. Where were you—where were you all at when he said he had to go to the Shamrock Service Station?

A. At Wolfy's.

Q. Were y'all inside or—

A. No, we were outside standing at the door.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 420 ("Q. Where were you—where were you all at when he said he had to go to the Shamrock Service Station? A. At Wolfy's. Q. Were y'all inside or—A. No, we were outside standing at the door. Q. And do you know if he went over there? A. Yes, he did. Q. What did you do? A. I saw him—I saw him—well, I went inside Wolfy's, I told him that I would meet him inside. Q. What did you do inside Wolfy's, if anything? A. I went in there and I bought a beer and sat down for awhile listening to the music. I stayed there till about—about ten minutes and then I noticed he never came back, sir.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) ("A. I went in there and I bought a beer and sat down for awhile listening to the music. I stayed there till about—about ten minutes and then I noticed he never came back, sir. Q. What did you do then? A. I went back outside to see what was going on, what happened.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) ("Q. Did you see anything, notice anything? A. I did. I noticed Hernandez inside the Shamrock Service Station.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 420–21 ("Q. Okay. What happened then, if anything? A. Well, then I noticed Hernandez going in somewhere in the counter and started wrestling with that woman, so I started walking off pretty quick, sir.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 420–21.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 421 ("Q. [W]hy did you walk away? A. Well, sir, I know I got a record, sir, and if I—if he came back to where I was, I knew these people would say I was involved with this guy, so I got scared and started walking away.")

See supra Chapter 2, notes 70, 87, 102, 178–183 and accompanying text.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 421–22:

Q. What happened then, if anything?

A. Well, I kept walking till I got to about Franklin Street, I think it was, or Nemec, can't remember, sir, then I started running because I heard sirens, police coming and I knew—

Q. Go ahead.

A. Oh. And then I knew that if—you know, I just kept running because I was scared, you know. . . .

Q. Well, what happened then while you were scared and running?

A. I was running, I slipped—some—felt—I slipped on some bushes or some grass, something like that, about three or four times and then I notice this fence and I jumped over the fence and when I jumped, the fence caught my shirt and it tore and it just came all off, sir.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 421–22.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 422 ("Q. Then what happened? A. Then I get up and proceeded running and then people started yelling, you know, something. I didn't know what was going on and I got scared and I dove under the truck, a truck I think it was . . . .").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 422 ("Q. What happened after [you drove under the truck]? A. After that a policeman arrested me, sir.").

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 423–24 ("Q. Did you ever tell the police that you knew who did it? A. At one time I was taken back to the gas station, I then told Officer Schauer that I didn't do it, but I knew who did it and then at one time I also told you about it, my attorneys, about this guy and that you brought me some pictures to see if I noticed him, but—and he turned out to be the guy and the State right here wouldn't do nothing to help me or nothing to look for this guy.");

see Mark Schauer, Corpus Christi Police Officer, Supplementary Police Report (Feb. 8, 1983) at 2 ("The suspect said 'Hey, man, you take care of me and I'll take care of you.' He said this over and over and also kept asking to speak with a sergeant. . . . Before I transported him to the city jail, the suspect also said, 'I didn't do it, but I know who did,' and again and again he said, 'I'll help you if you help me.'");

Mark Schauer, Corpus Christi Police Officer, Pretrial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. June 20, 1983) at 109–15 ("[DeLuna] repeatedly asked to talk to a sergeant. He kept saying, 'Hey, man, you take care of me and I'll take care of you.' He kept saying that quite often. And at least one time he said, 'I didn't do it, but I know who did do it. I know who did do it.' And also he kept saying, 'I'll help you if you'll help me.' . . . Kept saying those things over and over.");

supra Chapter 3, notes 130–131 and accompanying text.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 423–24.

Carlos DeLuna, Defendant in Killing of Wanda Lopez, Trial Test., Texas v. DeLuna, No. 83-CR–194-A (Nueces Cty., 28th Dist. Tex. July 19, 1983) at 423–24.

Chapter 13
Page: 13 of 23