HRLR
Los Tocayos Carlos
Chapter 17
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As for the Shamrock woman, Hernandez told Dina that "he went up to her and put the knife on her."44 He "[p]ut the knife on her life," he explained, because she didn't do something Carlos Hernandez wanted.45 Dina didn't know if Carlos had demanded that "something" right there at the Shamrock station, or if it was something—as in Dahlia's and her own case—that happened before and became a justification, in Carlos's twisted mind, to beat and stab and try to rape the object of his ire.46

As for Hernandez's tocayo—meaning someone, Dina translated, with the "same name, different last name"47—Hernandez said he was "stupid for not running fast and for getting under cars."

Hernandez himself "ran away, the other way."48 He was always "making fun of Carlos DeLuna," always "talking about how he," Hernandez, had "stabbed her and then he started running and they caught the other guy. Laughing, because his tocayo was going to pay for something like that, even though he didn't do it. Just because they look the same."49

"He ran, they got that other guy."50

* * * * *

As for herself, Dina described being dropped off at home by a friend late on April 14, 1989 after finishing her night job waitressing at Rosita's Kitchen.51 Cindy Maxwell was babysitting the kids and told her Carlos was drunk and had left with Dina's car. Carlos returned around 12:30 a.m., and Dina went outside to demand the keys from him. He refused.52

Then, Carlos came at Dina, pushing her up against a tree next to the driveway. He "went into his pocket and came out with a knife . . . [a] buck knife" and held it against her neck.53 Dina had known before then that he was jealous because she was dating Gilbert Limon, even though Carlos himself was with Cindy.54 Carlos asked her in Spanish, "How come you can give him some and not me?"55 Then he stabbed her in the stomach. Dina said the knife was so sharp, she didn't even feel Hernandez make the four-inch slit.56 She saw the knife and reached out to push it away, badly slicing two fingers on her right hand.57 Interviewed in prison, Dina's son Johnny later said he had to live with the knowledge that "the knife [Carlos] stabbed my mother with, I had sharpened for him."58

After stabbing Dina while they were in the front of the house, Carlos dragged her into the backyard to rape her. That was Carlos. Stab a woman, and try to rape her while she bled.59 He had that ugly look on his face, Dina said—the same look he'd get in his eyes when he drank and talked about the other women he'd hurt.60 "He looked evil," Dina recalled. "He wasn't Carlos, he was a different person. He looked . . . real bad, like he wasn't all there."61

Soon, Dina was on the ground. Carlos turned her over and was on top of her. He said he "was going to carve an 'X' on my back the way he did Dahlia."62 It was then that he said he was going to rape her,63 that "if I wasn't going to be his, I wasn't going to be for nobody else. That he always gets what he wants."64

When Carlos first put his knife on her neck, Dina kept still, hoping he wouldn't hurt her.65 Now, however, she screamed.66 Before he could cut her again or rape her, Dina's twelve-year-old son Andy came out of the house and hit him over the head with a large stick.67 Cindy had woken up Dina's fourteen-year-old son Johnny, and he came after Carlos with a kitchen knife. Carlos took off running.68

Andy went inside and called the police.69 After receiving the 911 call, the police put out a be-on-the-lookout for a thirty-four-year-old Hispanic male with a mustache wearing a t-shirt and blue jean jacket.70 The police soon picked up Carlos in a convenience store parking lot at Third Street and Buford. His blue jeans were bloodstained, and he had a buck knife in his back right pocket. The police took the knife and jeans as evidence.71

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 1.

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (June 14–15, 2004) at 2 ("Carlos Hernandez would be in the living room and he would make fun about how he killed the girl at the gas station and the one in the van. He would brag about how Graza and Carlos DeLuna—he would call Carlos his tocallo—were blamed for it and he was the one that had killed them. Hurting people was real funny to him and he always had a habit of saying 'I put the knife on her life'—meaning he had stabbed her.");

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 2 ("Q. Did he tell you other things that he was going to do to you? A. That he was going to rape me. Said that if I wasn't going to be his, that I wasn't going to be for nobody else. That he always gets what he wants. That's why he did [killed] the other girls.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:42:55–03:43:18 ("Q. Did he tell you other things that he was going to do to you? A. That he was going to rape me. Said that if I wasn't going to be his, that I wasn't going to be for nobody else. That he always gets what he wants. That's why he did [killed] the other girls.");

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 04:04:05 ("He [Hernandez] said they [he and Dahlia Sauceda] went out drinking, and they were partying . . . . So, they went out, and she didn't want to be with him, so he raped her.");

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 1 ("Stabbed her [convenience store clerk]. He ran, they got that other guy. Made fun because he had same name he called Carlos [his tocayo]. He went up to her and put the knife on her. D[ina Ybañez]: Why? He looked and got mad. 'Put the knife on their life.'").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:53:18–03:54:03 ("Q. And what does "tocayo" mean? A. 'Tocayo' means they have the same name. That's it. Different last name. Q. So when Carlos Hernandez told you about his 'tocayo,' who was he referring to? A. He was referring to Carlos DeLuna.").

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 1:

CH [Carlos Hernandez] on Shamrock incident: CH—ran the other way. CDL [Carlos DeLuna]—stupid for not running fast and for getting under cars. Stabbed her. He ran, they got that other guy. Made fun because he had same name[;] he called Carlos [his tocayo.] He went up to her and put the knife on her. . . . [Carlos Hernandez said he] "Put the knife on their life." . . . What CH said . . . .: Carlos DeLuna was running under cars—being stupid. Carlos H. ran away; the other way.

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:35:40, 03:43:18 ("Carlos was always bragging about things he did in the past. Like, when he hurt this girl called Dahlia. He stabbed her. And then somebody else was arrested for it."; "He was always—making fun of Carlos DeLuna, and that other one, for Dahlia. Talking about how he stabbed her and then he started running and they caught the other guy. Laughing, because his 'tocayo' was going to pay for something like that, even though he didn't do it. Just because they look the same.");

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (June 14–15, 2004) at 2:

Carlos Hernandez would be in the living room and he would make fun about how he killed the girl at the gas station and the one in the van. He would brag about how Graza [sic—Garza] and Carlos DeLuna—he would call Carlos his tocallo—were blamed for it and he was the one that had killed them. Hurting people was real funny to him and he always had a habit of saying "I put the knife on her life"—meaning he had stabbed her. And he would always brag about the "X" he carved into Dahlia's back. He bragged about how he raped and killed her and how the baby was in the van and he thought about killing the baby as well. Cindy, his girlfriend knew about this but she would never say anything about it—she loved him to[o] much.

Steve Mills & Maurice Possley, The Secret that Wasn't, Chi. Trib., June 27, 2006, available at http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/newspaper/eedition/chi-tx-3-story,0,761635.htmlstory ("Dina Ybanez . . . met Hernandez in 1985, and after he befriended her and her husband, he confided that he killed [Wanda] Lopez [at the Shamrock station]. 'He said he was the one that did it, but that they got somebody else—his stupid tocayo—for that one,' Ybanez said in an interview. 'Carlos would just laugh about it because he got away with it.'").

See supra note 48.

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:28:25–03:31:21:

The day that he stabbed me I was getting off from work. And when I drove up on my driveway, he, Carlos got out of the, from the back, and he just went up to me and put a knife on my neck. And I didn't do nothing, I just let him do whatever because I didn't want to get hurt. He had it right there [points to neck]. So [when] he took the knife off my neck and put it on his pocket I started fighting with him, and I don't remember anything after that. I guess he took it out again and he stabbed me with it. I took the knife from him and cut my fingers. And then my little boy came out and he started hitting Carlos on the back with a stick. And he started running away. Carlos ran. . . .

See Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Johnny Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 4, 2004) at 1 ("Mr. Ybanez was 12/13 years old when he spent a considerable amount of time with Carlos Hernandez. His mother worked at Rosita's Kitchen at night and Mr. Hernandez and Cindy would baby-sit for him and his younger brother Andreas.").

Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez, Statement to Corpus Christi Police Dep't (April 16, 1989) at 1 ("I got a ride with Lydia, who works with me. . . . When I got home, Cindy Maxwell . . . told me Carlos was drunk, had left in my car and was not going to bring my car back. Carlos finally got home at about 12:30 AM (4–15–89). I went outside and told him to give me the keys to the car.");

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 2 ("Cindy was baby sitting the kids that night. DY came home and got out of the car and he (CH [Carlos Hernandez]) pulled me out of the car. Put knife on my neck. Then she was still. He wanted sex.").

Dina Ybañez's accounts of Carlos Hernandez's attack on her are largely consistent with each other except in one detail—whether she waited for Hernandez to return to her house with her car after she had been dropped off at her home following work near midnight on April 14, 1989 (as she told the police in her contemporaneous statement), or whether Hernandez was waiting for her when she was left off at her home following work late on April 14 (as she recollected in her 2004–05 interviews). In the narrative in the text, we rely on Ybañez's statement to the police, shortly after the incident occurred.

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 1–2, 3:

[Carlos Hernandez] [s]tabbed her, carried her in back and tried to rape her. . . . DY [Dina Ybañez] came home and got out of the car and he (CH [Carlos Hernandez]) . . . Put knife on my neck. Then she was still. He wanted sex. . . . When CH [Carlos Hernandez] attacked DY [Dina Ybañez]: CH went into pocket and came out with knife. Buck knife. She was fighting him and—didn't feel stabbing. Grabbed his knife. Big, but it folded. Buck knife—she cut her hand and threw it away. He grabbed it again and turned her over. She's yelling and kids came.

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:42:41–03:42:55 ("Q. What was [he] going to do to you when he had you on your back? A. [Hernandez said] [t]hat he was going to put an X on my back like the way he did Dahlia. Q. Did he tell you other things that he was going to do to you? A. That he was going to rape me. Said that if I wasn't going to be his, that I wasn't going to be for nobody else. That he always gets what he wants. That's why he did [killed] the other girls.");

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:29:38 ("I just remember that I got off of work, and he [Carlos Hernandez] was waiting for me up there. And then, I got out of the car, and he just came up to me and put a knife on my neck. And he wanted to rape me, and I didn't want to let him, but when I saw the knife on my neck I wasn't going to fight.");

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Johnny Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 4, 2004) at 2 ("After that I never really saw much of him [Carlos Hernandez] because we kept moving around and finally we moved to San Antonio. I think the reason he stabbed my mom is because he wanted to be with her and she didn't want him. At the time [she] was with Gilbert [Limon]").

Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez, Statement to Corpus Christi Police Dep't (April 16, 1989) at 1:

Carlos started pushing me around and pushed me against the tree by the driveway. He then pulled out the knife from his back pocket. It was already opened. Carlos then stabbed me with the knife which he had in his right hand. He stabbed me one time in my stomach. Carlos was jealous because I am dating a guy. He said, 'How come you can give him some and not me?' He said this in spanish. He said this moments before he stabbed me. I tried to stop him after he stabbed me one time but he cut two of my fingers in my right hand.

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:21:59 ("Q. Do you recall how long were you in the hospital? A. I don't remember nothing. I was like emergency surgery because I lost a lot of blood because Cindy didn't want to call the cops, because she didn't want Carlos in trouble. So she let me stay there until I was out. And it's big, do you want to see? [lifts up shirt, revealing a scar that runs from belly button to sternum] That's what he did to me.");

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 3 ("When CH [Carlos Hernandez] attacked DY [Dina Ybañez]: CH went into pocket and came out with knife. Buck knife. She was fighting him and—didn't feel stabbing. Grabbed his knife. Big, but it folded. Buck knife—she cut her hand and threw it away. He grabbed it again and turned her over. She's yelling and kids came.").

See supra note 55.

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Johnny Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 4, 2004) at 2 ("According to Mr. Ybanez, Mr. Hernandez always carried a folding type knife and would show him how to sharpen it. Mr. Ybanez stated, 'In fact the knife he stabbed my mother with I had sharpened it for him. Those old guys from Mexico, the ones from the barrios, they always carried a knife and Carlos was good with it. He would show me how he flipped [it] out.'").

James S. Liebman's Notes of Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 1 ("1st. Stabbed her, carried her in back and tried to rape her. Different look in face. Ugly like that picture.").

James S. Liebman's Notes of Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 1;

see Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:46:13 ("And he would always be walking with his quart bottle because he was an alcoholic. But he was, he was more like a hobo. He never looked normal. When he was drunk he looked uglier. He had an evil look on his face . . . .");

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 04:04:05–04:06:19:

Q. When Carlos Hernandez told you about him killing the lady at the gas station, and about him killing Dahlia Sauceda, what kind of look did he have about him?

A. He looked evil. He wasn't Carlos, he was a different person. He looked like, sometimes, he looked real bad, like he wasn't all there. But that was the way he liked people to think about him. But he was bad. He was even molesting his niece, Pricilla. He was a pervert, besides being an alcoholic. And he hated me because I'm the one that got him busted for the first time. He couldn't get away, he got arrested for me. Even if they [the authorities] didn't do nothing to him, he still got to jail.

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 04:04:05–04:06:19 ("He looked evil. He wasn't Carlos, he was a different person. He looked like, sometimes, he looked real bad, like he wasn't all there.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:42:41–03:42:55 ("[He said that] he was going to put an X on my back like the way he did Dahlia. . . . [He said that] he was going to rape me. Said that if I wasn't going to be his, that I wasn't going to be for nobody else. That he always gets what he wants. That's why he did [killed] the other girls.");

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (June 14–15, 2004) at 3 ("I remember him turning me over and I knew he was going to carve an 'X' on my back the way he did that girl. If it had not been for my boys who came to my rescue we would not be talking about this today because he would have killed me.");

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 2 ("CH [Carlos Hernandez] stabbed me and turned me over and said I'm going to do to you what I did to Dahlia. I knew what he meant. My two oldest boys took a stick and beat him on the head on a soft spot. I fell on the porch. CH took off running and the little boy followed him to Maverick Market.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at–03:42:55 ();

see Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:29:38, 03:42:41–03:43:18 ("I just remember that I got off of work . . . , and he [Carlos Hernandez] just came up to me and put a knife on my neck. And he wanted to rape me, and I didn't want to let him, but when I saw the knife on my neck I wasn't going to fight."; "[He said that] he was going to put an X on my back like the way he did Dahlia. . . . [He said that] he was going to rape me. Said that if I wasn't going to be his, that I wasn't going to be for nobody else. That he always gets what he wants. That's why he did [killed] the other girls.");

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (June 14–15, 2004) at 1 ("Dina told me that Carlos Hernandez stabbed her with a knife and her guts came completely out—he was going to rape her. He was a very bad man".);

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 1, 2 ("[Carlos Hernandez] Stabbed her, carried her in back and tried to rape her. . . . DY [Dina Ybañez] came home and got out of the car and he (CH [Carlos Hernandez]) pulled me out of the car. Put knife on my neck. Then she was still. He wanted sex.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:42:41–03:42:55 ("[He said that] he was going to put an X on my back like the way he did Dahlia. . . . [He said that] he was going to rape me. Said that if I wasn't going to be his, that I wasn't going to be for nobody else. That he always gets what he wants.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:28:25–03:31:21:

The day that he stabbed me . . . Carlos got out of the, from the back, and he just went up to me and put a knife on my neck. And I didn't do nothing, I just let him do whatever because I didn't want to get hurt. He had it right there [points to neck]. So [when] he took the knife off my neck . . . I started fighting with him, and I don't remember anything after that. I guess he took it [the knife] out again and he stabbed me with it. I took the knife from him and cut my fingers. And then my little boy came out and he started hitting Carlos on the back with a stick. And he started running away. Carlos ran.

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 1, 2 ("[Carlos Hernandez] Stabbed her, carried her in back and tried to rape her. . . . DY [Dina Ybañez] came home and got out of the car and he (CH [Carlos Hernandez]) pulled me out of the car. Put knife on my neck. Then she was still. He wanted sex.").

James S. Liebman's Notes of Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 3 ("When CH [Carlos Hernandez] attacked DY [Dina Ybañez]: CH went into pocket and came out with knife. Buck knife. She was fighting him and—didn't feel stabbing. Grabbed his knife. Big, but it folded. Buck knife—she cut her hand and threw it away. He grabbed it again and turned her over. She's yelling and kids came.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 03:28:25–03:31:21:

The day that he stabbed me . . . Carlos got out of the, from the back, and he just went up to me and put a knife on my neck. And I didn't do nothing, I just let him do whatever because I didn't want to get hurt. He had it right there [points to neck]. So [when] he took the knife off my neck . . . I started fighting with him, and I don't remember anything after that. I guess he took it [the knife] out again and he stabbed me with it. I took the knife from him and cut my fingers. And then my little boy came out and he started hitting Carlos on the back with a stick. And he started running away. Carlos ran.

James S. Liebman's Notes of Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 3 ("When CH [Carlos Hernandez] attacked DY [Dina Ybañez]: CH went into pocket and came out with knife. Buck knife. She was fighting him and—didn't feel stabbing. Grabbed his knife. Big, but it folded. Buck knife—she cut her hand and threw it away. He grabbed it again and turned her over. She's yelling and kids came.").

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (June 14–15, 2004) at 3 ("I remember him turning me over and I knew he was going to carve an 'X' on my back the way he did that girl. If it had not been for my boys who came to my rescue we would not be talking about this today because he would have killed me.").

Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez, Statement to Corpus Christi Police Dep't (Apr. 16, 1989) at 1 ("He [Carlos Hernandez] was going to stab me one more time when my son Andy picked up a big stick and hit Carlos on the head. Carlos did not stop. At this time, my older son Johnny (14YOA) came out of my house with a kitchen knife to save me and Carlos let me go and started running.");

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Johnny Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 4, 2004) at 2 ("On the night that Carlos Hernandez stabbed Dina Ybanez; Johnny was asleep and was woken by Cindy who informed him of the stabbing. When he went to the aid of his mother she was sitting down holding her stomach and blood was everywhere. The police arrested Mr. Hernandez immediately.").

Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez, Statement to Corpus Christi Police Dep't (Apr. 16, 1989) at 1 ("My son Andy (12 YOA) ran inside and called the police. The police got there and I told them what happened.").

M. DeLeon, Corpus Christi Police Officer, Supplementary Report (Apr. 15, 1989) at 1 ("Before arriving at the scene a BOLO ["be on the lookout"] was put out on the description of the suspect. The BOLO described the suspect as being a 34 yoa Hispanic male with a moustache, wearing a brown t-shirt and blue jean jacket.").

M. DeLeon, Corpus Christi Police Officer, Supplementary Report (Apr. 15, 1989) at 1:

About that time [after hearing the BOLO] we saw a suspect matching the description walking at Buford and 3rd St. Upon making contact with the suspect [Carlos Hernandez] we found him to be the same suspect wanted for the stabbing at 1914 7th St. The suspect was then arrested and taken to City Jail. The knife that was found on the suspect was then tagged at the City Jail for evidence (#23195). The blood stained blue jean pants that the suspect was wearing were photographed by I.D. Technician . . . and were then tagged as evidence (#23197). The knife was found in the back right blue jean pant pocket. . . .

See James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 13, 2004) at 2 ("My two oldest boys took a stick and beat him on the head on a soft spot. I fell on the porch. CH took off running and the little boy followed him to Maverick Market [where he was arrested].").

Chapter 17
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