HRLR
Los Tocayos Carlos
Chapter 6
Page: 13 of 17
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All Chapter 6 Footnotes

Garza recalled that during Hernandez’s first years out of prison in 1978 and 1979, one of the teenagers around him was Carlos DeLuna, eight years his junior.199 Eddie Cruz also met DeLuna in Hernandez’s orbit, as did several of Hernandez’s neighbors.200 Margie Tapia and her sister Bea saw the two Carloses together, as well.201

It was in describing the connection between Hernandez and DeLuna that Garza called DeLuna a “follower” and drew a sharp contrast with Hernandez. Summarized in the investigators’ notes from the 2004 interview with Garza, the former police detective elaborated on the differences between the two.202 Hernandez, the notes read, was a “bad ass. Terror of [the] neighborhood. Everyone was afraid of him.”203 Carlos DeLuna was “a slow thinker.”204 Garza “never knew [DeLuna] to be violent.”205

“If anyone was violent or mean,” the retired police detective had said, “it was Carlos Hernandez. He would stare right through you.” He was “cold.” He had “no feelings.” Carlos DeLuna, by contrast, “had feelings.”206 He was a “follower, not [a] leader.” “If Carlos Hernandez said ‘take [the] rap for me,’” Garza continued, “Carlos DeLuna would.”207

* * * * *

One person who wasn’t prepared to do Hernandez’s bidding—and paid for it—was Freddy Schilling, the husband of Carlos’s much-revered sister Paula.

Freddy was handsome and often unfaithful to Paula. Sometime after Carlos returned from prison, Freddy started noticing Dahlia Sauceda at the Casino Club and at one point offered her a ride home. At first, they just talked about problems she was having with her husband and a boyfriend she was also seeing. But “one thing led to another, and before you know it,” Schilling said, “me and her started doing things.”208

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Figure 18. Paula Hernandez Schilling, her husband Freddy Schilling, and their two boys, Freddy and John Michael, ca. 1983.

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective, inCorpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 6, 2004) at 00:26:26 (“During the late 70’s and 80’s I saw Carlos DeLuna and Carlos Hernandez together around Leopard and Staples Street area.”);

Bruce Whitman & James S. Liebman’s Notes on Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective (Aug. 25, 2004) at 2 (describing seeing DeLuna and Hernandez together at a bar by South Bluff Park).

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Eddie Cruz, Private Investigator for Defendant Jesse Garza in Dahlia Sauceda Case, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Feb. 25, 2005) at 19:40:01–end:

Carlos DeLuna was one of the young men that would frequent Carlos Hernandez’s apartment on Louisiana. I think I also recall that my nephew told me that he knew Carlos DeLuna also, my nephew did. So Carlos Hernandez knew [Cruz’s nephew] Jesse Garza and also knew Carlos [DeLuna]. I don’t know the extent of their friendship, but they did know each other. I know for a fact that Carlos Hernandez knew Carlos DeLuna because I saw him at Carlos Hernandez’s house, I saw Carlos DeLuna at his house, at least once or twice. . . . During that time, Carlos DeLuna would come by to visit . . . .

Bruce Whitman’s Notes on Interview with Janie Adrian, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Sept. 23–24 and 27, 2004) at 2 (listing Carlos DeLuna as one of the young men who hung around with Carlos Hernandez in the neighborhood near Fidela’s house on Carrizo Street, including in the “park” (an open grassy area) behind Janie Adrian’s house);

James S. Liebman’s Notes on Interview with Janie Adrian, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 4, 2004) at 1 (“CDL [Carlos DeLuna] was there with CH [Carlos Hernandez]; they do look the same. CDL hung out with CH on Carrizo St. where Fidela lived.”).

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Beatrice Tapia, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 9, 2004) at 08:43:58 (“I remember seeing Carlos DeLuna. I’d heard about him, about Carlos DeLuna. And I’d seen him a couple of times, Carlos DeLuna. And I’d seen him talking to Carlos Hernandez, a couple of times.”);

Transcribed Videotaped Interview with Mary Margaret Tapia, Girlfriend of Carlos Hernandez, in San Antonio, Texas (Dec. 4, 2004) at 04:48:08, 04:50:26–04:51:42 (“Carlos Hernandez, Carlos DeLuna, I didn’t know them personally but I knew they were hanging around [the Casino Club].”; “White Rabbit, it was a club. Um, Carlos DeLuna went there sometimes, not all [the time]. Same with Carlos Hernandez. They were. I think they knew each other . . . . I encountered Carlos Hernandez and Carlos DeLuna, they used to go to Robbie Zamora’s and Richie Zamora’s house in the [Carrizo Street] neighborhood.”).

Bruce Whitman & James S. Liebman’s Notes on Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective (Aug. 25, 2004) at 2 (stating that Carlos DeLuna was a “[f]ollower, not leader. I never knew him to be violent. If Carlos H[ernandez] said take [the] rap for me, CDL [Carlos DeLuna] would”).

Bruce Whitman & James S. Liebman’s Notes on Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective (Aug. 25, 2004);

see Transcribed Videotape Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective, inCorpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 6, 2004) at 00:31:10, 01:43:20 (“Carlos Hernandez was almost always assaulting women and assaulting guys. . . . And most of the time it was cutting up people or hitting them with a beer bottle or something. But he was always involved in mostly violent crimes.”; “Carlos Hernandez, you would look at the guy, and you look straight in his eyes and you could see that cold, cold person, like he could stare straight through you. And it was a sort of a [sic] frightening, mean look that Carlos Hernandez had.”).

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective, inCorpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 5, 2004) at 00:37:43 (“Carlos DeLuna was sort of a slow thinker. I wouldn’t say he . . . was a complete retarded person. He was just slow in thinking.”).

Bruce Whitman & James S. Liebman’s Notes on Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective (Aug. 25, 2004) at 2;

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective, inCorpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 5, 2004) at 00:37:43 (“And [Carlos DeLuna] wasn’t a violent person that I can remember. . . . Most of his habits was really intoxication and petty theft, but nothing in the violent part of—that you would say Carlos DeLuna is a very violent person. Never, never did I have anything dealing with any violence.”).

Bruce Whitman & James S. Liebman’s Notes on Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective (Aug. 25, 2004);

see Transcribed Videotape Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective, inCorpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 5, 2004) at 01:43:20 (“You could talk to [Carlos DeLuna] and he would look you straight in the eye. You wouldn’t feel threatened.”).

Bruce Whitman & James S. Liebman’s Notes on Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective (Aug. 25, 2004) at 2;

see Transcribed Videotape Interview with Eddie Garza, Corpus Christi Police Detective, inCorpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 5, 2004) at 00:37:43 (“[Carlos DeLuna] was just a slow person, a follower, someone that, they would tell him ‘Go do this’ or ‘Go do that’ and the guy would follow what someone else told him. He wasn’t a person that would stand up and think on his own what he was going to do.”).

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Freddy Schilling, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Feb. 24, 2005) at 13:55:06–13:55:33:

Yeah, [Dahlia] went to the Casino Club. She used to go to the Carousel. In fact, that’s how I met her, at the very beginning. She was coming out of the Carousel, walking down the street, crying. I pulled over, tried to be nice and offered her a ride. That’s how things got started between me and Dahlia Sauceda. . . . Well, it kind of got out of hand. Because at first, when I first met Dahlia, she played this little innocent role. She was having troubles with her husband and had a boyfriend. So, just one thing led to another, and before you know it me and her started doing things.

Chapter 6
Page: 13 of 17