HRLR
Los Tocayos Carlos
Chapter 8
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As far as Pricilla was concerned, however, it wasn't her uncles but her grandmother Fidela who caused most of the trouble in the family. "A witch," Pricilla called her, who never showed love to anyone. No hugs. No kisses. None of the normal things a grandmother does.19

Thanks also to Fidela, Pricilla's home was permeated with sex. It was "ugly" and "dirty," and it was constant.20 Everyone in the neighborhood knew Fidela had men in and out of her home for money. When he was a kid, Javier told neighbors he watched his mother having sex with one of them.21 She didn't hide it.22

Fidela's appetite was also directed at her granddaughter. She made Pricilla take showers in front of her, as she previously had done to Pricilla's mother Paula.23 Sometimes Fidela forced Pricilla to sleep in a bed with her and her uncle Carlos.24

Worst of all, in the Hernandez household, sex and violence went hand in hand.25

When Pricilla was nine, Carlos started molesting her—exposing himself at first, then forcing her to perform oral sex, then worse. He raped her repeatedly until she was a teenager and left the house.26

Nobody did anything to stop it.27 Carlos told her not to tell anyone, because no one would believe it.28 Once, Javier walked in on Carlos unzipping his pants in front of Pricilla.29 After a fight with Carlos, Javier told his niece he would protect her, but he never did.30 When Pricilla told her mother what was happening, Paula just cried.31 When Pricilla told Fidela, she called Pricilla a liar and told her granddaughter to keep her mouth shut.32 The best Pricilla could do was to stay around other people and avoid being alone with her uncle.33

Carlos was "sick," she told the investigators, and did nothing but harm her and everyone else.34

* * * * *

Carlos molested other children. His younger brother, Frankie, told neighbors that Carlos raped him all the time.35 When he went to Fidela for help, she told him to "fight like a man."36

The abuse reached outside the family as well. Pricilla heard from one of Carlos's lady friends that he molested a little girl over on Seventh Street.37 He was twice caught molesting another girlfriend's five-year-old niece but was never reported.38 Carlos tried to rape the daughter of a next-door neighbor who was at Fidela's house playing with Pricilla. He pulled her behind the house, but she was able to kick him and get free. She ran home and told her mother, but no one called the police.39 Just six months before the out-of-town investigators came to Marcella Brown's house to ask about Carlos, a friend from years before,40 she'd heard from her adult son that Carlos had molested him in the 1980s.41

That's how Carlos was, Pricilla said. "He thought he was untouchable."42 He didn't think the rules applied to him. He scared people and got away with things. Carlos was arrested for many crimes in his day—armed robbery, grand theft, dealing heroin, assault with a deadly weapon, attempted burglary, murder, and attempted murder43—but he almost never went to prison for them. When he committed crimes in the neighborhood, no one ever turned him in, not even for abusing their own children.

For Freddy Schilling, it was Carlos's brazen abuse of his own niece Pricilla and other young girls that summed up his brother-in-law best. Carlos Hernandez, Freddy said, was:

no good, man. The dude was no good, no good. And it wasn't just my daughter [Pricilla], believe me, because I've seen him. He used to hang around this laundry right there on Park and Staples. . . . It used to be kind of the hangout for the neighborhood there. And he would constantly hang out there [and] try to make passes at . . . girls 13, 14 years old. He was always trying to get them. In fact, some of them were my daughter's friends. My daughter could tell you that, that Carlos tried to put his hands on them. The dude was sick, man. He was throwed off, he was throwed off, believe me. [H]e used to scare the shit out of me.44

* * * * *

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Sept. 16, 2004) at 2 ("Fidela is a witch. . . . Fidela never gave her children the kind of love a mother gives her children. There was no bonding between Fidela and her children. . . . Fidela never gave Paula a kiss or a hug.");

see James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 3, 2004) at 3 ("$—with Fidela it was all about $").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 4, 2004) at 06:19:40 ("Q. Did Carlos ever hurt you? A. Yes he did, but nobody believed me. Q. How did he hurt you? A. He touched me in places that he wasn't supposed to. Q. Did he make you touch places that you weren't supposed to? A. Yes. Q. And where did this happen? A. In my grandmother's room in [the house on] Carrizo [Street].");

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 4, 2004) at 06:33:25–06:34:44:

Q. Tell me why you believe that you cannot have normal relations with people—

A. I don't feel comfortable. I mean, it's not so much that, it's just, I've been through so much, and I just don't feel comfortable with myself, and I run them off like that. I don't feel comfortable with my body, and it's, like, nobody can live with that.

Q. And tell me what role you think Carlos played in how you feel about yourself in relationships. When I say Carlos, I mean Carlos Hernandez.

A. Well, he destroyed my life. Since I was young, I felt dirty. I mean, I don't feel comfortable with myself. I mean, person can say, "you look pretty" and this and that, but I don't feel it.

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Rita Hull, Friend of the Hernandez Family (Sept. 14, 2004) at 2 ("Fidela did a lot of ugly things to Paula [Hernandez, Pricilla's mother]. She made Paula bathe with the bathroom door open.");

Bruce Whitman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 9, 2004) at 2 ("Pj [Pricilla Jaramillo] has always suffered as a result of the rapes [by her uncle] and has never been able to have a 'normal sexual relationship with men.' Every man she has developed a relationship with left her because of this. pj [Pricilla Jaramillo] to this day thinks her body is 'ugly' and wears plain cloth[e]s th[at] cover her up completely. She can not stand to see herself . . . and takes showers with her [underclothing] on. Her daughters try to get her to change her hair and try on different clothes but she refuses.");

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Sept. 16, 2004) at 2 ("Fidela never gave her children the kind of love a mother gives her children. . . . Fidela never gave Priscilla privacy when she was young. . . . Fidela, CH [Carlos Hernandez] and Priscilla were forced to sleep in the same bed together."); see infra notes 21–34 and accompanying text; supra Chapter 6, notes 61–80 and accompanying text.

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Linda Perales Ayala, Step-Mother of Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo and Ex-Wife of Manuel DeLuna (Sept. 14, 2004) at 5, 7 (noting that her step-daughter "Pricilla [Hernandez] witnessed Fidela engage in prostitution"; "Her grandmother was with [men]—in and out of the house.");

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Beatriz Castro, Neighbor of Fidela Hernandez (Oct. 23, 2004) at 2 ("Javier told one of Beatriz's sons that he watched his mother having sex with a man.");

James S. Liebman's Notes on Peso Chavez's Interview with Rita Hull, Friend of Hernandez Family (July 22, 2004) at 1, 3 ("Fidela was a . . . working prostitute."; "Fidela is a whore who had men in and out of her house all the time that paid for sex. She and Paula both worked at a dry cleaners store on Staples but Fidela's real profession was that of a prostitute. That's where Pricilla picked it up from (referring to the number of relationships Pricilla had with so many different men.");

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Rita Hull, Friend of Hernandez Family (Sept. 14, 2004) at 2 ("Fidela raised Pricilla. Pricilla turned out the way she did because of what she witnessed at Fidela's house, including Fidela's prostitution.").

See supra Chapter 6, notes 70–72 and accompanying text.

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 3, 2004) at 3 ("Both of us, my mom and me, were made to shower in front of Fidela.");

see Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Rita Hull, Friend of the Hernandez Family (Sept. 14, 2004) at 2 ("Fidela did a lot of ugly things to Paula. She made Paula bathe with the bathroom door open.").

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Sept. 16, 2004) at 2 ("Fidela never gave Pricilla privacy when she was young. Fidela, [Carlos], and Priscilla were forced to sleep in the same bed together");

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 3, 2004) at 2 ("Fidela, [Carlos] and Pricilla were forced to sleep in the same bed together.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 4, 2004) at 06:19:40–16:20:15 ("Q. Did Carlos ever hurt you? A. Yes he did, but nobody believed me. Q. How did he hurt you? A. He touched me in places that he wasn't supposed to. Q. Did he make you touch places that you weren't supposed to? A. Yes. Q. And where did this happen? A. In my grandmother's room in Carrizo.");

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Linda Perales Ayala, Step-Mother of Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo and Ex-Wife of Manuel DeLuna (Sept. 14, 2004) at 7–8 ("[Her step-daughter] Pricilla told Linda that there was 'sexual stuff with the [Hernandez] family.' Linda states that 'she [Pricilla] was doing that stuff with someone in the family.' There was a, 'family incest thing.'");

James S. Liebman and Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Rita Hull, Friend of the Hernandez Family (July 22, 2004) at 2 ("Paula told Ms. Hull that when she was growing up she never liked taking baths because her mother would make her leave the door open so that she could watch her bath[e]. Ms. Hull stated, 'This was a strange family—Paula's father impregnated her [half-]sister Margaret . . . .'").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 4, 2004) at 06:19:40–06:20:15 ("Q. Did Carlos ever hurt you? A. Yes he did, but nobody believed me. Q. How did he hurt you? A. He touched me in places that he wasn't supposed to. Q. Did he make you touch places that you weren't supposed to? A. Yes.");

Bruce Whitman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 9, 2004) at 1–2:

When pj [Pricilla Jaramillo] was 9, her uncle Carlos Hernandez began sexually abusing her. The abuse began with ch [Carlos Hernandez] exposing himself to pj and than forcing pj to perform oral sex and eventually vaginal penetration. Note: pj was visibly upset, shaking and crying when talking about the sexual abuse. Ch [Carlos Hernandez] told pj not to tell anyone about the abuse as they would not believe her. [She] told her gm [grandmother] Fidela and she [Fidela] did not believe her. She told her mother Paula and all her mother did was cry. She told her uncle Javier and he said he would try to protect her, which he didn't. pj tried to keep herself safe by going with her gm anytime she left the house but there were times she [was] alone in the house and ch raped her. At age 14 pj had had enough and ran away from gm's house to her mothers. Pj has always suffered as a result of the rapes and has never been able to have a "normal sexual relationship with men."

See James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Rita Hull, Friend of Hernandez Family (Nov. 4, 2005) at 1 ("Said Pricilla had been raped . . . by her uncle CH [Carlos Hernandez] . . .");

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Rita Hull, Friend of the Hernandez Family (Sept. 14, 2004) at 3 ("Carlos molested Pricilla. Once, Javier walked in on Carlos forcing Pricilla to perform oral sex on Carlos.");

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Linda Perales Ayala, Step-Mother of Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo and Ex-Wife of Manuel DeLuna (Sept. 14, 2004) at 7–8 ("[Her step-daughter] Pricilla told Linda that there was 'sexual stuff with the [Hernandez] family.' Linda states that 'she [Pricilla] was doing that stuff with someone in the family.' There was a, "family incest thing.'"; "She later learned that Carlos [Hernandez], that he was 'bad' . . . that he raped [her step-daughter] Priscilla.");

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Gloria Licea Sanchez, Girlfriend of Carlos Hernandez (July 21 and 23, 2004) at 3 ("GLORIA'S KNOWLEDGED [sic] ABOUT THE HERNANDEZ FAMILY: . . . Pricilla had been molested by Carlos.");

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Freddy Schilling, Brother-in-Law of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Feb. 24, 2005) at 14:24:02–14:24:47 ("I was locked up at the time. But I came out of prison one day. Months later, my wife and I were laying down, and she started crying. She confessed to me. She didn't want to say anything, but when she did, she told me that Carlos Hernandez had sexually assaulted my stepdaughter, Pricilla. That really, really—It hurt me, hearing that.");

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Dina Ybañez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 7, 2004) at 04:04:05–04:06:19 ("[H]e [Carlos Herandez] was bad. He was even molesting his niece, Pricilla. He was a pervert, besides being an alcoholic.");

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Freddy Schilling, Brother-in-Law of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 5, 2004) at 3 ("[Carlos] raped his younger brother Frank and his niece Pricilla.");

see also Transcribed Videotape Interview with Janie Adrian, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 5, 2004) at 07:51:32–07:52:46:

Q. Carlos had a little niece you said, Pricilla, was Pricilla friends with any of your daughters?

A. Yes . . . .

Q. What did Pricilla do when she was around Carlos?

A. She wouldn't want to be there. She would come by the house and say she didn't want to be there. But I never did ask her why. But she kind of wanted to let somebody know what was going on at the time.

Q. Tell me what, tell me what that was about.

A. Like sex. That's it, you know. He [Carlos Hernandez] was doing something to her that she didn't want to go through.

Q. How old was she at that time? A. She was about 10, 11 between there, maybe younger than that I'm not sure.

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Janie Adrian, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 4, 2004) at 3 ("Frankie: CH [Carlos Hernandez] beat the crap out of him. Very abusive—sexually abusive. Frankie told JA [Janie Adrian] about this. Also, the little girl, Priscilla. She was always afraid and wanted to be around anyone besides Carlos. JA always wondered why Priscilla was this way.");

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Beatrice Tapia, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 9, 2004) at 08:42:03–08:42:49 ("[T]here was times when Pricilla was scared to go home, and there were times when Pricilla didn't want to spend the night there. She would constantly, Pricilla would constantly ask me if she could spend the night at our house.").

Bruce Whitman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 9, 2004) at 1–2:

Ch [Carlos Hernandez] told pj [Pricilla Hernandez] not to tell anyone about the abuse as they would not believe her. [She] told her gm [grandmother] Fidelia [sic] and she did not believe her. She told her mother Paula and all her mother did was cry. She told her uncle Javier and he said he would try to protect her, which he didn't. pj tried to keep herself safe by going with her gm anytime she left the house but there were times she [was] alone in the house and ch raped her.

Bruce Whitman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 9, 2004) at 1–2 ("Ch [Carlos Hernandez] told pj [Pricilla Jaramillo] not to tell anyone about the abuse as they would not believe her.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 4, 2004) at 06:20:44–06:21:10 ("[Javier] caught [Carlos] one time, unzipping his pants. And they got into an ugly argument.");

see Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Rita Hull, Friend of the Hernandez Family (Sept. 14, 2004) at 3 ("Carlos molested Pricilla. Once, Javier walked in on Carlos forcing Pricilla to perform oral sex on Carlos.").

Bruce Whitman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 9, 2004) at 2 ("She told her uncle Javier and he said he would try to protect her, which he didn't.").

Bruce Whitman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 9, 2004) at 2 ("[Pricilla] told her mother Paula and all her mother did was cry.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 4, 2004) at 06:21:10–06:21:34 ("Well, [my grandmother] thought I was lying. She told me to keep my mouth shut.").

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 3, 2004) at 3 ("I hated him [Carlos Hernandez] because he was violent and drunk and scared me. I always tried to stay where there was people.");

Bruce Whitman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 9, 2004) at 2 (""pj [Pricilla Jaramillo] tried to keep herself safe by going with her gm [grandmother Fidela] anytime she left the house but there were times she [was] alone in the house and ch [Carlos Hernandez] raped her.");

see supra note 26 and accompanying text.

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 3, 2004) at 1 ("[Carlos] has done nothing but harm to people. Sick person.");

see Bruce Whitman's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 9, 2004) at 2 (Pricilla "hated [Carlos], stayed away from him and can't even stand to hear his name.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Janie Adrian, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 5, 2004) at 07:50:31–07:51:32 ("Q. Carlos Hernandez you said had a brother named Frankie. A. Frankie, he [Carlos] was very abusive to Frankie, verbally and I think, a . . . what's that other word, abusive by, with Frankie. . . . Q. Abusive in what way? A. Like he would do things to Frankie that he's not supposed to, Frankie didn't want to be there. . . . Frankie would come by the house and tell me he didn't want to be there with Carlos. . . . Q. Was it sexual abuse? A. Yes.");

James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Jane Adrian, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 4, 2004) at 3 ("Frankie: CH [Carlos Hernandez] beat the crap out of him. Very abusive—sexually abusive. Frankie told JA [Janie Adrian] about this. Also, the little girl, Pricilla. She was always afraid and wanted to be around anyone besides Carlos. JA always wondered why Pricilla was this way.");

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Beatriz Castro, Neighbor of Fidela Hernandez (Oct. 23, 2004) at 3 ("[Carlos] and Javier, together, used to sexually abuse Frank when Frank was young. . . . Frank used to complain to Fidela about [Carlos] and Javier sexually abusing him and Fidela told Frank to 'fight like a man.' When Beatriz asked Frank about it—he told her that it happened all the time.");

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Freddy Schilling, Brother-in-Law of Carlos Hernandez (Aug. 5, 2004) at 3 ("[Carlos] raped his younger brother Frank and his niece Pricilla.").

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Beatriz Castro, Neighbor of Fidela Hernandez (Oct. 23, 2004) at 3 ("Frank used to complain to Fidela about [Carlos] and Javier sexually abusing him and Fidela told Frank to 'fight like a man.' When Beatriz asked Frank about it he told her that it happened all the time.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Dec. 4, 2004) at 06:21:34–06:22:35 ("I overheard, when I was growing up, that he [Carlos Hernandez] had hurt another child. Seventh street. It was a little girl. . . . [She heard this from Hernandez's friend Mary Ellis.] Yes. She [Ellis] lived right next door to the people.").

James S. Liebman Notes on Steve Mills's Interview with Dina Ybañez, Girlfriend of Carlos Hernandez (Nov. 3, 2005) at 1 (describing two incidents when she caught Carlos molesting the five-year-old daughter of the sister of Carlos's girlfriend; she told the girlfriend to put a stop to it, but the girlfriend didn't.).

Bruce Whitman's Notes on Interview with Maria Martinez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (July 22, 2005) at 1–2:

While living on C[a]rizzo Street in the early 80's Carlos Hernandez tried to rape Maria's daughter Bertha. Bertha told Maria she was at the Hernandez house to visit with Carlos Hernandez's sister Paula when Carlos Hernandez forced her behind the Hernandez house where Carlos Hernandez tried to rape her. Bertha managed to kick Carlos Hernandez, freed herself and ran home. The attempted rape was not reported to the police.

Peso Chavez's Notes on Interview with Maria Martinez, Neighbor of Carlos Hernandez (Dec. 2, 2005) at 2 ("Carlos raped my little girl." Ms. Martinez stated, "When Berta was 12 years old Carlos Hernandez raped her.").

Transcribed Videotape Interview of Marcella Brown, Friend of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Feb. 24, 2005) at 13:21:27–13:22:43 ("I didn't meet Carlos Hernandez and Javier Hernandez 'til, I had to be in my early twenties, I believe, mid to early twenties, something like that. I met them through mutual friends, partying, hanging out. When I met Carlos, I met him through his brother, Javier Hernandez. We [Marcella and Carlos] also hung out together. Him [Carlos Hernandez] and his girlfriend [Cindy Maxwell] babysat my kids, and we hung around. I knew him for quite a few years.")

Transcribed Videotape Interview of Marcella Brown, Friend of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Feb. 24, 2005) at 13:30:38–13:32:34:

I didn't find this out until actually, I'm thinking it's been within the last 6 months. . . . My son, we were talking about other people that had gone through being molested or whatever. . . . And then that's when he came out and said that he, also, had been molested, which was a really big shock to me because I had no clue. And that's when he told me that it was Carlos [Hernandez]. And I was just so upset, you know. It was hard for me to get it together and consult [sic—console] him, but he was cons[oling] me 'cause I felt guilty. These were people [Carlos Hernandez and Cindy Maxwell] that I trusted. We never got him [her son] to detail or anything. I didn't know if he wanted to talk about it or not. So he just told me it was ok, it was over with, it wasn't my fault. But I had no clue, I never would have thought, because Cindy was also there.

Sita Sovin & Lauren Eskenazi's Notes on Interview with Pricilla Hernandez Jaramillo, Niece of Carlos Hernandez (Sept. 16, 2004) at 1 ("He [Carlos Hernandez] thought he was 'a certain kind of bully—he thought he was untouchable.'").

Carlos Hernandez Complete On-Line Criminal Record, Criminal History System.

Transcribed Videotape Interview with Freddy Schilling, Brother-in-Law of Carlos Hernandez, in Corpus Christi, Texas (Feb. 24, 2005) at 14:26:07–14:27:40;

see James S. Liebman's Notes on Interview with Cruz Perez and Lisa Garza, Neighbors of Carlos Hernandez in the Mid–1980s (Nov. 3, 2005) at 1 (describing incidents during which Carlos Hernandez would make his mentally impaired girlfriend "sit there and be quiet and watch" while he "was hitting on other girls. He hit on everyone. He hit on Lisa [Cruz Perez's daughter] and she was only 14.").

Chapter 8
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